White Ring on the Bottom of a Ferment Jar

Hello Kirsten,

I've recently made a bottle of spinach kraut by following one of your recipes. And when it was done, I put it into the fridge. Only after a few days, I saw a "white ring" at the bottom of the bottle. I've attached a picture here to explain better. Do you know why that happened? And is it still safe to eat?

Thanks,

Tracy

Hi Tracy,

The white ring at the bottom of your ferment it fine and a normal part of fermentation. It is similar to the sediment at the bottom of pickles (like Bubbies brand or home fermented pickles). I am happy to report it is very normal and harmless. I believe you are seeing it because the spinach ferment is darker in color than most. If you look carefully at other ferments you will likely see a similar ring.

Cheers,

Kirsten

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Here is another troubleshooting question about sediment with the same advice, but maybe that one looks more like yours than this one.

If you would like to learn how to make sauerkraut or pickles we have a couple of courses now available at our fermentation school:

• Mastering Fermented Vegetables It covers it all. This complete vegetable fermentation course will teach you the skills and give you the confidence to ferment any vegetable safely and effectively.

• Learn to Make Fermented Hot Sauces Learn to ferment hot sauce with any pepper you love. You can choose blazing hot or super mild peppers, fresh or dry and blend in other flavors. This fermentation class will teach you everything you need to make your own safe probiotic hot sauces.

• Learn to Ferment Sauerkraut and Pickles In this class we will walk you through making your own delicious lacto-fermented sauerkraut and pickles. This class is a benefit for the displaced folks from the Sept 9, 2020 Fires in Southern Oregon. All proceeds will go to good food aid.

Herbs on Brine—Mold or Yeast?

I’m fermenting some cucumbers and carrots using a simple garlic and dill recipe. As you can see, all of the vegetables are safely below the brine (I’m using glass weights to keep them down), but the dill has floated to the top. I’m worried that this will cause mold to grow but am not sure if mold will grow from an herb like dill or if it only grows when the vegetables themselves are exposed to air. It’s been fermenting for 5 days and so far no mold but there’s a very thin white film on the top of the brine (hard to see in the picture), and it looks like some whitish coloring is forming around some of the pieces of dill. I don’t have an airlock system so I keep the jar covered but not airtight to allow the gasses to escape. What do you think?
 
Thanks!
-Justin

Hi Justin,

Yeah those pesky small herbs always sneak past the weights.

Your ferment looks fine, it looks like you are developing a small bit of Kahm yeast (the white) not a big deal and very normal. I wouldn’t touch it until you are ready to taste and eat at which point you will scoop off the yeast with a spoon and discard (along with the dill bits that are floating in it.) Generally, once you refrigerate the yeast doesn’t return but if it does just scoop off as it is harmless—just can taste a little yeasty and will soften any veggies that get up above the brine and into this yeast. That won’t be a problem though with your weights.

I have made pickles without air-locks for years and still do — its all good!

Enjoy,

Kirsten

Beautiful kraut below a dirty brown brine

Hi! I've made a kraut from beats, turnip and cabbage. I made 3 batches and this one mysteriously turned brown on top. This happened within the first week. I left it 28 days. It smells sweet. It looks dirty, like brown specs in the brine. And brown on the cabbage on top . It's not slimy... and I havnt tasted it. The bottom half is a beautiful fusia. 

I also made a batch of carrots that had white blotches like dried fat on top. Strange since I used an airlock.

I so appreciate any help!! I'm kinda new to this!!  

Katharyn 

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Hi Katharyn,

For some reason, your kraut oxidized on top…not sure why or how with the airlock.

The brown flecks are leftover from some initial foaming likely. The good news is that this is fine—just get rid of all the discolored kraut everything underneath will be just fine. Enjoy!

As far as the carrots—it sounds like Kahm yeast. This is common on carrots and again just remove it is harmless. Here is another post that goes into Kahm yeast a little more.

All best, Kirsten

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If you would like to learn how to make sauerkraut or pickles we have a couple of courses now available at our fermentation school:

• Mastering Fermented Vegetables It covers it all. This complete vegetable fermentation course will teach you the skills and give you the confidence to ferment any vegetable safely and effectively.

• Learn to Make Fermented Hot Sauces Learn to ferment hot sauce with any pepper you love. You can choose blazing hot or super mild peppers, fresh or dry and blend in other flavors. This fermentation class will teach you everything you need to make your own safe probiotic hot sauces.

• Learn to Ferment Sauerkraut and Pickles In this class we will walk you through making your own delicious lacto-fermented sauerkraut and pickles. This class is a benefit for the displaced folks from the Sept 9, 2020 Fires in Southern Oregon. All proceeds will go to good food aid.

Are my fermented pickles ok?

Dear Kirsten and Christopher,

I bought a copy of your book last month and successfully preserved a bunch of farm fresh vegetables using your fermenting techniques. However, I am having some doubts about my pickling cucumber ferment. I followed the NY Deli-style pickle recipe. After 5 days I noticed Kahm yeast and removed it. Before refrigerating I noticed some slime so I added more salt to the brine. Upon doing so, I noticed white clumps formed the minute I added a bit of grey sea salt. The water itself looks cloudy and some of the pickles seem to want to float. The white clumps have since settled to the bottom of the jar. The brine itself smells great but before tossing the batch and deeming them unsafe to eat I thought I would get a second set of eyes to look at my jars of pickles. Please see the attached pictures. Any feedback would be greatly appreciated.

Many thanks,
Tina 

Hello Tina,

Thank you for the pictures, they really help. All veggies want to float in the brine and it looks from the pictures like maybe they did some floating in the jar. If any of them did slip out from the pack and float to the top that would be a conduit for develop enzymatic or yeast infections. We are guessing you may have one or both on this batch. Cloudiness is normal but the white chunk is baffling to us. Our recommendation honestly Tina is to compost this batch and try again. If you are up for that  really pack them in tight and under that shoulder of the jar - they should be in there tight enough that none can float to the top. It also helps to find a tannin rich leaf—grape, oak, horseradish to tuck over the top to keep things under the brine and crispy. We hope you still have cukes and that you have a good second batch.

Christopher & Kirsten

Brownish Brine

Question: I just started fermenting. First I made sauerkraut - Delicious!  Now I just made your asparagus & caulikraut recipes.  The caulikraut looks great but the asparagus brine turned brown after 1 day.  Is this okay??? Thanks for your help.

Answer: The brine in this picture looks fine. It is at the beginning of the process and often at this stage the brine will take on some of the colors from the vegetables or spices. This is a normal color for asparagus. You will continue to see changes in the color of the asparagus as well as the brine. 

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If you would like to learn how to make sauerkraut or pickles we have a couple of courses now available at our fermentation school:

• Mastering Fermented Vegetables It covers it all. This complete vegetable fermentation course will teach you the skills and give you the confidence to ferment any vegetable safely and effectively.

• Learn to Make Fermented Hot Sauces Learn to ferment hot sauce with any pepper you love. You can choose blazing hot or super mild peppers, fresh or dry and blend in other flavors. This fermentation class will teach you everything you need to make your own safe probiotic hot sauces.

• Learn to Ferment Sauerkraut and Pickles In this class we will walk you through making your own delicious lacto-fermented sauerkraut and pickles. This class is a benefit for the displaced folks from the Sept 9, 2020 Fires in Southern Oregon. All proceeds will go to good food aid.

My vegetables are not fermenting

More than once we’ve been asked, “What is going wrong? My ferments just don’t ferment. I make them and wait and then throw every thing out and start again.” 
“How do you know? Was there mold? Slime?” 
 “No, absolutely nothing happened. Nothing. No bubbling. No mold. Nothing.”
“Did you smell and taste it?”
“No.”
“Well, you might have just had an quiet ferment—always check on it before throwing it out. Likely it was perfect.”
Watching a ferment actively bubble is very satisfying and many ferments offer plenty of effervescence to please that need to know something is happening. Beets for example usually don’t disappoint, you can think of them as extroverted. They are working and they want you to know it. If you are a beer or wine or cider maker you are used to that first ferment where the yeasts are pushing all kinds of foamy sludge from the carboy. If that doesn’t happen in brewing you know there might be a problem. In vegetable ferments you may or may not see active fermentation. It depends on the usual list of variables such as sugar content or environmental conditions. 
The introverts on the other hand are quiet. Our little bacteria processors hard at work and we cannot see or hear a thing. Just like it is okay when your ferment is bubbling out of the container it is not a sign of failure if you don’t see or hear a bubble. 

This isn't always the case. Of course, there are other reasons that a ferment won't ferment—this is just a reminder to make sure it truly hasn't fermented before you throw out your ferment.

Vegetables Floating on Top of the Brine?

QUESTION :: I tried Cebollas Encurtidas per the recipe in your book. It seemed to do OK but the onions, as a bunch, seemed to keep wanting to float above the brine. The weight I used was the water in the baggie trick and it clearly wasn’t heavy enough to keep everything down.

There still appeared to be some brine above the onions, so I think they remained unexposed for the most part. But I did not expect this (see picture). Is this normal for this recipe? Do I just need a heavier weight? If I catch it doing this, do I just keep pushing it down to the bottom?

I ended up scraping the top layer of onion off and tasted the rest. It didn’t taste bad, but I have no frame of reference for this recipe so I don’t know if the taste was right.

Thoughts?

Dave

ANSWER :: This happens, it is not recipe or onion specific. It is as you suspect—not enough weight.  The high amount of released CO2 is trapped between the onions and causing them to float above the brine. To solve this simply push the vegetables back under the brine and add more weight. It is a good rule of thumb to remember that the larger ferments require larger bags with more water.

Some ferments just need more babysitting then others. This can happen with wetter ferments such as this one or pepper pastes. Just keep pressing your floating veggies back under the brine.

I don't see any bubbling, is my kraut okay?

Question::

I am trying my first batch of fermented cabbage and have a question.  I followed your instructions. The cabbage is in a glass jar with large leaves on top.  Then I put a filled zip lock bag on top of that and then it is covered with a towel. It has been sitting for 4 days and nothing appears to be happening in terms of bubbling and releasing of CO2. 

My question is this: I pushed the bag into all "corners" of the jar so it is pretty well sealed. Does the gas have to escape or is it so well sealed that releasing the gas in unnecessary?  Because all the cabbage has remained under the leaves, I have just let it sit and have not pressed it down more. THANKS for the help,

Best regards,

T.

Answer:: 

Your ferment looks great. The color looks good and that it is starting to change. You did a wonderful job of placing your zip lock bag, you want it well sealed like you have it. The CO2 can escape while the cabbage is kept weighted down. 

The thing with fermenting is that there is a bit of variation. Not all ferments cause a wild scene while working. I like to say they are introverted. :) Some reasons for that are due to the sugar content of the vegetables—this varies even from cabbage to cabbage.

The other thing that can cause a ferment to move slowly is cooler temperatures. If the location that it is in is chilly you can move it to a warmer spot. Likely it is fine and is just working slowly.

As you see the cabbage turn more yellow (notice that some in your picture have a more yellow quality) and less green you can feel free to taste it. You will taste the acidity. Just press it down and repack after you “sneak” a little out.

Can I still eat this sauerkraut?

Question :: When I pulled this beet sauerkraut out of the back of my refrigerator I found this  this white growth on top. Is it still safe to eat?  — Jane, CA

Answer :: It looks like you have two things happening on the top of the sauerkraut. The first is kahm yeast which is harmless but it makes the flavor quite "yeasty". The other issue appears to be mold. This is something you do not want to eat. Both of these things happen with the exposure to air and can be avoided by pressing your sauerkraut under the brine before storage. Also always use clean utensils.

Because of the condensation on the container it is difficult to see the sauerkraut that is under the affected area. It appears there are air bubbles throughout the kraut. If this is the case the entire batch may have been exposed to air in which case the molds and yeasts can move throughout the kraut. This sadly means it must move on to the compost pile.

When you are faced with a sauerkraut that has something undesirable on top you do not always need to throw the whole thing away. Often it is just the top layer and maybe the first inch of sauerkraut that must be composted. Everything under the brine is anaerobic and safe to eat. 

The best thing to understand is if it is bad you will know it is bad. Flavor, color, smell—all your senses will let you know.

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At the fermentation school Kirsten offers a simple Learn to Ferment Sauerkraut and Pickles class for $16, Learn to Make Fermented Hot Sauces for $35, a Mastering Fermented Vegetables for $78 and a special bundle of the last two for a discounted price of $93.

Is my brine fine?

Question :: "This brine keeps overflowing!  I put the batch in a larger jar and submerged it was another jar of water like you mentioned, but the brine keeps spilling out.  How does volume increase like this? Just expanding? Oh wait, I pushed down on it, and it released a ton of bubbles. So I was able to pour that brine back in, and it seems like I'll just keep doing that? Should I put it in divided jars?"

Answer :: You are right that pressing it down and letting the brine sink back into the cabbage is what needs to be done. The jar is quite full and so there isn't much room to accommodate the action. You will need to press it down regularly, or you can press it into a larger jar. Thanks for the photo!

As far as the CO2 action you are seeing--it is different all the time. Some cabbage batches are not as active as well…its a funny thing and hard to predict. The good news is even the quiet ones are working.